10: Seahorse Dad: Planning for pregnancy as a transgender man

Liam is a transgender man who has spent the last eight years embracing his true life as a man. He changed his name, took hormones, and got top surgery. But recently he had a big realization. He wants to be a father – and he wants to carry his own child. Now Liam has stopped taking hormones and started preparing his body to do something he never imagined: get pregnant.

Listen to Liam’s Terrible, Thanks For Asking episode here. 

Here is Liam’s YouTube Channel where he’s chronicling his journey to pregnancy. 

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Episode transcript is below. Transcripts may not appear in their final form.
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Julia Winston: Liam Magan knew from a young age that he wanted to be a parent. 

Liam: my sister and I would make PowerPoint presentations of our future families, like husband, wife, the kids, their names, what they like to do. 

Julia Winston: A lot of us had some version of this PowerPoint- maybe it was playing MASH with your friends and seeing if you'd marry your crush from school and live in a shack with 12 kids. Or just using dolls to simulate a family as you played house. Liam used these PowerPoints as a child’s version of a vision board. 

Liam: So I like would find like some redheaded Stock images of children. Those were my kids um I always imagined like a son and a daughter like just Such the traditional like you have one of each kid and then you're good kind of thing.

Obviously being transgender back then I was like growing up as a girl and so I Was the mother in that role and I had a husband and two kids usually. And then it's funny one of my childhood friends growing up we would play like house and I was Mike and she was Kathy and we had like 27 children and we had like a list of them and it was so funny.

Julia Winston: Liam is now 30 years old. He transitioned from female to male eight years ago, and has been living as a man ever since. During his transition, there were moments when he thought he wouldn't, or couldn't, have kids. But recently, that dream of becoming a parent has resurfaced. 

Like many people in their 30s, Liam is surrounded by friends and family who are having kids. And he loves helping out and being an uncle.

Liam: Often times I would hang out with my friend to help her with the kids on Tuesdays while her husband was working and so like she had an appointment, the two year old's sleeping in the backseat, we did a car nap, I'm feeding the baby a bottle on the front seat and I'm like scrolling on Instagram.

And I saw a video pop up of like a transgender man's like birth story, and in the past, like, I would say like three or four years, there's been a lot more representation out there of like trans or non binary people, giving birth and, and being pregnant, and so it had been kind of like something I was like, huh.

I was watching that video and like the baby's like she would always like play with my beard While I was feeding her the bottle and so then i'm just like looking at her and i've just watched this video and I was like I want to get pregnant.  It just like came over me so quickly and I was like, I want I want to do that, too. I want to be a parent and I want to try and get pregnant.

Julia Winston: Today, on the season 1 finale of Refamulating, we share Liam's emotional and physical journey as he prepares for pregnancy as a transgender man. Liam wanted to share his story with us after listening to the show, especially episode 2, the story about Tony the single dad. He told us that story made him feel  more seen as he embarks on his own journey to single fatherhood. 

I got so excited when Liam reached out because the purpose of this show isn’t just to tell stories. It’s to remind everyone who’s listening that you’re not alone. We’re all part of a bigger family than the ones we came from and the ones we’re building. The purpose of this show is to create a sense of connection and togetherness. And we do that by sharing our stories, by being seen and heard. 

As for Liam, the family he envisions these days looks very different from his childhood PowerPoint fantasy- he won't be a dad named Mike, with a wife named Kathy, and there won't be 27 kids, but what has stayed the same, is his intense desire to have children. And now he’s making it happen. 

Liam lives in New Hampshire, where he grew up in an intergenerational home with his parents, sister and grandparents. He officially came out as transgender when he was 22, and started the process of transitioning. But he knew well before then that something in his life wasn't quite right. 

Liam: it was like always like there and I didn't really understand all the different things that I was like doing or, Ways I was self soothing. Like growing up I always wore like a backwards hat so that I didn't see my hair or like I wore my hair in a bun like at The back of my head. That's gender dysphoria Like I was like feeling something figured out a way to correct it for myself. 

When they made you line up boys and girls in school I always went to the boys line and then they were like Go back over here. And I'm like, oh, like it just was like, uh, yeah, I'm gonna line up over here. If someone had asked me then do you feel like a boy I'd be like, "yea!" 

And I think like so many things in my life could have been different if I had access to like the terminology to express how I felt, but I just didn't know. I was like, maybe this is how everyone feels. They just feel like disconnected from their self all the time. And like this little chaotic experience emotionally inside.

Julia Winston: The disconnect Liam felt inside was confusing and distressing. Internally he felt like a boy, but everyone in his life treated him like a girl. 

Liam: And I remember like fifth grade when they teach you like about your own body, I was just like, I feel like I'm in the wrong class. Like, I don't think I should be having this information. But I just had like no way to, to express that and, and to anyone in a way that like made sense. 

Like, I remember as a kid, I would, like, slam my hand in the door, or, like, kick my bedpost, like, a hundred times really hard. Or, like, try and smash my finger with a hammer. Like, anything to, like, output that discomfort I had in myself. High school and middle school sucks for everyone, but like it's more so sucking when your, like, body is starting to change in a way that just doesn't feel like it should.

Julia Winston: Liam came out as a lesbian in high school. But when he went to college, he met transgender people for the first time and finally understood something crucial about himself. That’s when he started to learn about the idea of transitioning.

Liam: Even then it was still like, maybe, but I don't think I could ever do anything about it because my family won't support it. And it was just kind of like, I don't know if I'll ever do it. But finally I decided to shave my head. So I had always had really long hair and I decided to shave it off because I was just like I'm gonna be a cool shaved head lesbian so my friends, we all got together in the lobby of our college dorm and shaved my head and then I went and looked in the mirror and it was like, Oh, yeah, Like it just was like a lightning bolt.

All the like small things I'd said and done throughout my whole life just like made sense on like all of a sudden. Oh yeah I am transgender and like oh shit now I've got to do something about it. I don't know how to describe it, but it was like the first time I saw myself in the mirror and not just like a reflection in the mirror.

It was just like, oh, there you are. Like that's the person like I've always like known was there. Um, and I could finally like see it reflected back to me. 

Julia Winston: When he shaved his head, surrounded by supportive friends, it unlocked something in Liam. He felt brave enough to transition into the man he knew himself to be, and the summer after he graduated from college, he started testosterone. 

Taking testosterone was a major step in his transition. The hormone changed his body to take on more masculine qualities: he stopped menstruating. He started growing more body and facial hair. His voice deepened and most importantly, he started feeling like himself.

Liam: And, then a year and a half later, I had top surgery to have a flat chest. 

Julia: In the early days of Liam’s transition, the idea of getting pregnant in the future would have horrified him.

Liam: pregnancy became something that like was very feminine and only women do it. And so I kind of like disconnected myself from that. And I was like, I never want to do that. I don't want, you know, to be associated with anything female anymore. Especially like an early transition, everything is like much more fragile, because you know so much who you are, but, like, nobody else knows. And, the world is perceiving you in a way that you don't want to be perceived, and so it's like, you kind of have to, like, push from one side to the other, to, tolerate that, I guess?

Julia Winston: One of the challenges about coming out as trans was telling his parents. 

Liam: for a while, it was very much like, we're not going to call you Liam. We're not going to call you he like. We can't support this. You're always going to be our daughter, like. very hard. and there was a period of time where we didn't talk at all. 

Julia Winston: Liam's rocky relationship with his parents after coming out is the topic of an episode of Terrible, Thanks for Asking podcast, another show in our network. That episode is called Liam and the Letters. We've linked that episode in our show notes if you want to hear more about that chapter of Liam’s story. Things were tough with his parents, but he did have support from other adults in his life. His grandparents, who he grew up with and was very close to, supported him unconditionally. 

Liam: they were like, you know we’ve been waiting for you to tell us what’s wrong. And we love you no matter what. My grandfather who has since passed away was a huge advocate. He went to the library and he got as much literature as he could to just try and understand and he wanted to support me the best way that he could. And my grandmother is just, she's come to me to all sorts of different t  rans activism stuff. She calls me my name in front of them, and like, it's just so great. I had asked my grandmother about it like several years later and she was Like yeah, I always wanted to ask you like what's going on. And then my grandfather was always like, no, just wait. Like he'll come when he's ready.

Julia Winston: These days, Liam's relationship with his parents is...better. 

Liam: Our relationship has very much ebbed and flowed and over the recent years and the point that I'm at now with it is like We agree to disagree about like my transition. they still like wish that I was their daughter and that I would like marry a man. They've been in their beliefs for so long that that's just their worldview, and I'm not going to change that in the same way that they're not going to change mine.

And so I try to just, like, meet them where they're at, which is like, they call me a nickname, they call me Red, so that, like, neither side is hurt by the name and use. My parents are wonderful, awesome people, and like, in all other aspects, like, other than this one major thing, but like, my sister has a son, and I see them as grandparents, and I'm like, they're wonderful grandparents, and like, I have a very close connection with my grandparents, and like, I would want my child to be able to have that opportunity to have that kind of relationship.

We're just going to kind of start from where we're at now. We're not going to like think about the last like decade and a half of things that were like really hard between all of us. I just really am focusing more on like, what can I cultivate for my future family? Versus like getting stuck in all the hurt in the past. 

Julia Winston: And Liam is happy to have a loving relationship with his parents, because as he prepares to have a baby, he'll need a support system. 

When we come back, Liam talks about his plans for getting pregnant. 

When Liam started taking testosterone at 22, he was warned it could impact his future fertility. 

Liam: the way that it was posed to me when I started testosterone was like you can either Like preserve your fertility ahead of time or you can choose this testosterone And so being young I was like, well, I don't want to wait any longer to transition to the person I know I am, and I don't really care if I have my own kids and so at that point in time, I was just kind of like i'm okay sacrificing a biological child to pursue what I need to do 

Julia Winston: But we have more information now. Transgender people do not need to choose between a biological kid and gender affirming care. Taking hormones could impact fertility, but it’s a small risk.

Many doctors will advise a trans patient to preserve their eggs or sperm before starting hormones in case they want kids later. 

During his 20s, Liam focused on his transition and creating a life as a man. He also got married, and his spouse didn't really want kids. So he was content just being a fun uncle to his sister's children. 

Liam: So my best friend of Like 13 years. She was pregnant with her first child in 2020 and then my friend had her baby and, I just, again, I loved, like, hanging out and being the fun uncle, and that was, like, still cool and fine for me, it was fun as we were like, oh, she's got, you know, Lindsey's smile and Ryan's eyes and, like, kind of picking out those, like, features where you're like, oh, like, I wonder what my kid would look like and what the features would be And different things like that that kind of started the little wheels turning, And then two years later she was pregnant with her second and they end up having to go to the hospital to be induced And so they needed someone to watch their older kid who was 20 months at the time And so I said, yeah, I can take her for the week. 

That was when I realized like how much I liked Being a caretaker for a child more so than just like I come over and I hang out for a few hours on Monday and we do like really fun stuff and then you go take a nap and I leave, it was like, Oh, I like waking up early with you I like making Your breakfast. I like putting you to sleep and giving you a bath and like all those things. And so then I was like, Oh my gosh, I think I want to do this too. But I'm now in this marriage where we decided not to have children. And, um, there are many other reasons why the marriage fell apart besides just that, but that would have become an issue for sure.

So that was like a pivotal moment where I was like, okay, I want to have kids, but I still wasn't even thinking about like biological kids. I was just like, I think I want a parent. I definitely know that I want to do that whatever that might look like. 

Julia Winston: It was around this time that Liam saw that  video online of a trans man who got pregnant, and he realized he might actually be able to do it biologically. So he started talking to his doctors about what it would take to try and get pregnant.

Liam: first I had to come off of testosterone because testosterone does suppress fertility. It does not make you infertile. I guess technically if you're on testosterone you are infertile, but it doesn't make you permanently infertile. If you come off of it your cycle will come back, and your like egg quality is preserved, like everything is still there. It's just been kind of Dormantly hanging out. When I realized like oh my God, I wanna get pregnant, I was like living in my parents' basement and like just about to get divorced. So it wasn't really like a I'm gonna start doing this yet. It was like, okay, once I get things like sorted out, I'm living on my own again. And like that's something I can start thinking about more. 

Julia Winston: At the beginning of 2024, Liam was in a place to make some decisions. His divorce was finalized, he had his own place, and the first step was stopping testosterone. 

Liam: I started the beginning of this year with the tapering of testosterone. Now there's not really any like, standards of care for this kind of thing. Like I was talking to my hormone prescriber and I was like, is there like a, like, what should I do? And she's like, you could just stop tomorrow. You could, you could do whatever you want. Really. There's no like really like set standards. There's not a lot of research about it. 

And so I had decided to taper my dose by one ML every month cause there were some times when like supply demand I didn't get my testosterone and I would really go through like an emotional little roller coaster for a Couple weeks when I was like having gone from high testosterone down to low it was like, okay I don't really want to just like go through that. If I gradually come off it I feel like that might be easier on the emotions and so that that was just what I decided to do And by February, I was on half of my dose I was normally on.

And then I was just kind of like, I feel fine. I'm really just anxious to like, get to the part where like, my cycle comes back and everything is working. Because it was also like, will it come back and will it work? I don't even know. I could like, go through this whole process and it might not happen. 

So I've been off testosterone now for three months and honestly, I thought it was going to be a lot more of like a jarring emotional transition to go like back in time.

I was like, I'm going to go back to like how it was before, but I've just, I definitely have felt more emotional. Like I can definitely access my emotions more easily. Like I felt like I couldn't like I couldn't really cry that much when I was on testosterone and like things like that But it has not been as kind of dramatic as I thought it was going to be for sure. I went through a period where like one armpit was really stinky and the other one was not stinky at all.

I was really tired for like a month straight because just like my hormones were all wackadoo. 

Julia Winston: Then, Liam got his first period in years. 

Liam: It was very light and my periods before were like so heavy that I was like, is this really a period? I don't really know. I mean, like I'm having cramping and things, but it seems like not that much. And I just kept like waiting for the day you like woke up in like a blood bath, cause that's like what used to happen eight years ago when I had a period so yeah, so it's like okay something something's working I think.

Julia Winston: Which is great news for Liam because you need to have a menstrual cycle in order to get pregnant. But it's also complicated, because all of these changes take him back to a version of himself that never felt comfortable or right. 

Liam: It's very interesting also to like parallel eight years ago I was like, I can't wait to start testosterone and get rid of my period and never have it again and then it's like eight years later i'm like waiting for it to come back.

Honestly thought I would have a greater struggle with my dysphoria than I have been. For most of my life, I really didn't think about, like, anything below the waist about myself at all. I just was like, I just live up here in my head, and I don't nothing else exists. And then, like, after top surgery, I was like, okay, I'm cool with, like, my chest and everything, but, like, the rest, I'm not gonna think about it. But I feel like it's been a journey of like, I guess, re experiencing my body in a way that I have not ever before.

I feel like a lot, in a lot of ways, it's like growing up a woman, it's like, you have all these expectations about who you should be and what you should look like and what your body does or doesn't do and all those things. And then as a trans person, it's like almost the mainstream narrative to like, well, I hate my birth sex and I don't want anything to do with it and all of that. And it's like, now I'm getting to kind of like redefine almost what My relationship to myself is. 

Julia Winston: Part of redefining that relationship is paying attention to his cycle, instead of trying to ignore it or make it stop, which is VERY new for Liam.

Liam: I just started using ovulation tests and I was like, wow, I've never peed in this many cups in my life. Um, a little teeny little. Um, mostly cause I don't really know what my cycle looks like you know, before I did, I just spent so much time in my before transition life, just like ignoring my body and like not tuning into it. So now it's like totally different to be like trying to be like hyper aware of my body in a different way and pay attention. It's like, I don't even know what my cycle length used to be. I just like knew that sometimes I woke up when I had my period and sometimes I didn't, you know, and now it's like wanting to know what my average cycle is so I can out when ovulation will happen 

Julia Winston: The menstrual cycle was a critical step. And the next piece of the puzzle was finding a sperm donor. 

Liam: I think a lot about What the story will be, you know, when my child asks, like, why do I exist kind of thing. I always wanted to use a known donor because I wanted there to be a story. Like, every kid grows up and asks, why, why did my parents fall in love? Why am I here? And I wanted it to be like a meaningful story. I didn't want to just be like, I picked a profile on some website and they sent me a vial of it. You know, that just felt very disconnected and I wanted a To demedicalize the process as much as possible. 

So, that sent me down the road of like, okay, what cis men do I know? That aren't my cousins or like, like other people who are not options.What cis men n do I trust enough? And like, you know, the list was very small.

I remember going through my Facebook like a thousand times being like, what the hell? And I like went back and forth about it for months on end. Like, who am I going to ask? 

My friend was like I'll convince my husband to do it and I was like No, that's way too close of a connection. It's like no, we're not gonna do that so I was like trying to find the balance between like too close and too far away. 

Julia Winston: There was one man who rose to the top: a co worker who Liam really liked. But a co-worker also felt a little too close. 

Liam: He's like the perfect candidate. He's gay. He doesn't want kids. We have a good dynamic, we do drag together. Like we have this like fun story. Then he ended up leaving and then I also left the job this year anyway, but all of a sudden I was like, Oh my god. We don't work together anymore. We're not co workers anymore. Like maybe he would be down for it.

So I just one night was out walking and I was like how do you ask someone to be your sperm donor? Do you like? Like do you propose to them? Do you give them a present? Do you have a conversation in person? Do you send them a letter like all these different things? Like how does one was I just need to him. So I did send him this rambling text. 

Hey So weird question like Um, I want to have a child but I don't have all the pieces, and I was like wondering if I could borrow your little guys for my project, and then when the project's complete, you don't have to do anything else. And if this is weird, just say, that's fucking weird, and we can move on with our lives. and if not, like, let me know if I can answer any questions, and he replied within like five minutes, he's like, hell yeah, I'm flattered, happy to help. 

Julia: How did you feel when you got that response? 

I was literally just like like so excited because I was like, oh my god, like I've been preparing for everything else But like I don't have the necessary other half So as much preparation I'm doing, I still can't really do anything until I figure that part out And so I was like, oh my god, like this is actually happening, I figured out a sperm donor. This is like getting more real like it was kind of like this idea in my head for like a whole year of like what I'm gonna do And now I'm like actually doing the thing.  And then we got his sperm tested just to make sure it was like, healthy, before we wasted either of our times, and it was. 

Julia Winston: They also signed a legal agreement, and came up with a plan for the sperm donor's involvement. 

Liam: He was like, you know, I'm down for whatever, as long as you don't die and they bring me the baby, like, just make sure that doesn't happen.

I was like, do we want it to be like a cultivated relationship where like you're uncle and you're intentionally in the life of my child or like you're just my friend and sometimes you see me out with my baby? Or do you want to just like go into it like you're the donor and like here's this whole special other person. Which is like Honestly, the way I've landed at this point, is just going into it honestly, like, yes, we used a donor to create you, and like, this is who he is, and like, maybe we don't see him all the time, but like, he's, if he wants to be at things, he can be, and if he doesn't want to be, he doesn't have to be. I said, as long as you're, like, willing to answer questions when the child's older and wants to, and like, if you're open to that kind of connection down the road, like, I, don't really expect you to be actively involved if you don't want to be.

Julia Winston: Liam now has all of the biological pieces in place. And once his cycle is regular, he'll start the insemination process. In the meantime, he's been thinking a lot about his lifestyle and what he might need to change in order to become a single dad. 

Liam: I ended up leaving the job I was at because I was like, I have no work life balance how am I gonna fit a child into like, what my day to day life looks like? So I'm in between. I don't really want to long term be a house cleaner, but it's getting me by.

But I'm thinking about, okay, what do I want my ideal job to be? Like, what kind of benefits do I want? And like, things like that. I've worked service related jobs, like forever, never had, benefits, never had, like, retirement or any of that. And suddenly, as I'm, like, thinking of, like, starting down this journey, it's like, all of a sudden, I'm like, I want a job that gives me paid time off, and I want a job that gives me benefits, and like, things that are gonna be good for me, and for, you know, a child. Where I said like, never ever considered it before, I was like, whatever, I'll figure it out, I don't care. And suddenly I care more about like, having balance in my life, I've been trying to kind of like, think about, okay, this what I, need to bring in. And one of my best friends is so supportive. She's like, we're going to sit down and figure out your budget and we're going to get you all squared away.

Cause I don't want you to be so willy nilly when you bring in a kid into the world that I'm like, yes, ma'am. Um, so I've got the fire under my ass for sure. 

Another thing that kind of pivoted my mindset of like, what I want to do for work was like, looking into daycare, so I was like, oh my god, it's so expensive, um, and my brother in law works a remote job, and he stays home with their son for the most part, and they have like a nanny for a little bit of the day, and so I was like, oh, if I could find something remote, I could like, have a pretty similar setup, which would be, A lot less money than sending my child to daycare.

Julia Winston: Liam is unbelievably intentional in his preparation to have a baby. It's something I've noticed with all of the queer people in my life - because queer fertility doesn’t happen by accident, everything needs to be planned. And that leads to a lot of self-reflection.

When we come back, Liam shares about how preparing for pregnancy is challenging his feelings around his gender identity.

After a lifetime of feeling uncomfortable with femininity, Liam says he's surprised at how well he's doing with the thought of having a menstrual cycle again and being pregnant.

Liam: it's been an interesting experience, but it has bothered me less than I thought it would. I was like, this is going to be really hard, but I'm just going to push through it. Like, I even thought having a period again would like really trigger me, because for many years I was like, if my period ever comes back, that's just going to be so horrible. If you had told me like, even like 5 years ago that I would do this, I'd be like, no. I do not want my period, I do not want to do any of that. 

Julia Winston: But as Liam has established himself as a man, he's changed his relationship with the idea of pregnancy and periods. 

Liam: It started with A) seeing representation of other trans people doing it and b) being able to separate my pregnancy from like womanhood and femininity and being like this is a really cool thing that my body can do. And I want to do it and so like able to kind of separate it is a very gendered world to be entering into. Like I for sure know i'm entering into a space where i'm constantly going to be like And me. Even just like prenatal vitamins. It's like good for mom and baby. And I was like, can't we just say like uterus and fetus? like do we have to say mom and baby? if this was me like seven or eight years ago I would have been so like deeply hurt to be like put into the woman category still . But now I'm like what the woman category is stupid. I'm entering the category anyway 

Julia Winston: As a transgender person, Liam has had to figure out the right words and language for his experience. Getting pregnant is a whole new chapter of that. 

Liam: Fatherhood, parenthood, like gestational parent is a term that is used a lot just to kind of like de gender it, especially in like same sex couples. There's always the like birth parents and then the non birth parents. So it's like gestational parent and, non gestational parent, you know, there's so many different words. I want to be seen in the same way that anyone else is seen as when they're becoming a parent. But it is an interesting. like intersection to be like, I want to be obviously acknowledged as the father of my child. Cause that's who I am, but also I want to be acknowledged for the like pregnancy and birthing experience I will have, which is obviously much more women's centric experience.But I mean, I just want really to be seen as someone entering parenthood, in a unique way. I think it'll be interesting to like experience, especially like as a child grows, being a father amongst other fathers, but I have the same experience as the women. And so like, what will that dynamic be like?

And so I don't know if there's an intersecting like way or term or like a way to sum that up. 

Julia Winston: Actually, we’ve got one! As we worked on this episode, we did find a term that could work for Liam: Seahorse Dad! In nature, male seahorses carry the babies and give birth. “Seahorse dad” is a term we’ve seen some pregnant transgender men call themselves.

But giving birth as a man is still new. Liam hasn’t found consistent medical advice, and not every doctor, nurse or doula has worked with a trans patient. So Liam has had to try and find resources to guide him through the process. 

Liam: I found some like good queer resources that are, Good at like, degendering. Like the one, Babymaking for Everybody, I think is what it was called. But it was very much like, if you have sperm, read chapter If you have eggs, read chapter 5.

It definitely feels lonely at times, just, you know, being the only person I know around me that's like on a similar journey.   Um, you? know, it's like as much as people in my life can be like sympathetic and try to understand the experience, they just won't. Which is true of many aspects of my life experience. Like I don't really know anyone else. No one else in my circle's divorced. No one else in my circle's transitioned. So it's Like, I've kind of always been on my own little offshoots, many different offshoots at this point.

Julia Winston: And that loneliness in this experience is a small worry for Liam. While he feels confident about his choice and is preparing himself as much as possible, he knows it will be a little different when other people know. 

Liam: I think for a lot of people, they just think, oh, you're transitioned, so you're not going to get pregnant or have children, you know, it's not like an, um, an option on the list of like things that people do. Um, a pregnant man, it's not like a common sight, and so I think about that a lot, like. What will people think and having to explain myself a lot feels like a little bit daunting like. 

People are always judging what you do no matter what, whether you do or don't do something, they're gonna say something, so like, whatever, I need to just not think about what other people are gonna think. 

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Julia Winston: But people's reactions are on his mind. A pregnant man is not common, and Liam knows some people might not react well. 

Liam: to see someone with a beard and also a pregnant belly. Like those two things clash with each other in, society's view of what a pregnant person looks like and what a man looks like. Those two images don't go together very often at all.

Julia Winston: Most people tend to respond to pregnant women with a warm smile, or patiently slowing down to let them cross the crosswalk, or offering their seat on the bus. Liam can’t help but think about his own safety if he goes out into the world pregnant. 

Liam: Especially in like late term pregnancy where it's very obvious. Um, you know, but I think there is going to be a point where it's like I've crossed the line from just like possibly just being a guy who has a big belly to like, huh, what's going on kind of thing. And so I think about that a lot. 

I was thinking about the other day, I was like, here I am just like in the gas station, like getting the soda. Like, am I going to do this when I'm eight months pregnant? Probably not. Cause I don't want to just be like staying around with all the other like dudes in line, you know, I feel like there's like a safety element that I have to consider. As far as like what the general public will make of me. 

Julia Winston: Liam has been creating videos about his experience trying to get pregnant. He just wants more people to understand the trans experience so he feels less like an anomaly. 

Liam knows how powerful a personal story can be. I mean it was an Instagram video from a pregnant trans man that inspired him to do this himself in the first place. And there are others who came before. Sixteen years ago, in 2008, there was a big news story about Thomas Beatie, a pregnant man: 

Oprah: I thought about seeing everything and then I saw a pregnant man. Thomas and his wife Nancy announced on our show that they were having a girl. They invited our cameras to come along for an ultrasound. 

Julia Winston: This man was also transgender and carrying a child. He was on Oprah and the cover of magazines, and all the stories framed it as a marvel! For teenage Liam, who hadn't transitioned, it was an inspiration. 

Liam: I can remember being a young teen and being like, I wanna do that. I didn't really like connect like those dots, but I just like, I remember thinking that's cool, and I wanna do it. 

Julia Winston: That's why Liam is volunteering his story now, before he's even gotten pregnant. He wants other trans men to know it's possible to have kids, and for other people to celebrate this experience just like they would for a pregnant woman. 

Liam: I just feel like it's either sensationalized as like the pregnant man, how is that possible? Or people just don't think it's possible because again, a lot of trans people don't or they like, they have hysterectomy and they go through all the surgeries and it's not even an option anymore. Back in the day in order to have your like sex changed on your documents You had to have proof that you had fully gone through all the surgeries. And so a lot of people did have to make the choice of like Do I want to be legally recognized as myself or do I want to have kids.

Julia Winston: Liam has told his close friends and his sister that he's trying to get pregnant. He’s making YouTube videos to share with a wider audience. And he’s sharing with us here at Refamulating. But he still hasn't told his parents. They struggled so much with him being trans, that he can't really predict how they will feel about him having a baby. 

Liam: I have a session with my therapist soon because I was like, I don't even know how to tell like how to tell my family what I'm doing. People will always have, will have something to say. Which is, I think, where some of my hesitation towards telling my family lies, cause like, I've always been, like, you know, on my own path, like we've said many times, but like, my sister has followed the exact right path that, like, they wanted her to. Which has its own whole host of issues that she has as a result of, like, being the golden child and I was, like, the problem child. But, I just feel like they're gonna be like, well, why aren't you married, and all the things that they probably wish I would do. 

Because I know that, I'm already like existing as a person that they wish was a different person. So then it's like everything I'm accomplishing feels like, well, we wish it was different, you know, kind of. Just like, if I have a kid, are they gonna be as excited as my nephew when he was born, or is it gonna be like a little bit lower? Cause they wish I was like, married to a man and a woman and doing it in a marriage and all those different things. But I could be surprised, honestly, I might be surprised. Maybe they will be so happy. 

So yeah, I worry about, I guess I worry about people's judgment. As much as I wanna say, I don't care what anyone thinks, but it's hard not to also think that. You know, we're all human beings. 

Julia Winston: Whether or not his parents are on board, Liam does have a support system that is ready to be his village if and when his child arrives. 

Liam: I have many wonderful friends who all have children as well And I know that they will support me in the same way that I've you know, supported them in their parenting. And I've got my sister and I actually just started dating someone in the last couple months and That's been interesting because I embarked on this journey being like, I'm going to be a single parent and I'm totally okay with that. And, um, just kind of just like fell into this relationship that's really wonderful. And she already has a son and I basically told her, I said, This is what I'm doing. I'm not pausing my journey because we're now dating each other. I'm going to still continue to pursue having a baby. But she's like, that's fine. I can't wait to like clean your house for you and rub your feet. So that's been nice because I was, I feel like I definitely was choosing between dating or becoming a parent. Cause honestly, I was like, I don't want to try and date someone to figure out if they're going to be a good parent. 

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Julia Winston: What have you learned that you want to share with other trans people who might be trying to get pregnant? Other trans men who might be trying to get pregnant? 

Liam: I went into it thinking this is going to be so hard. This is just going to be so hard, but I want to do it. And it's just been so much easier than I thought it was going to be. I mean obviously everyone has different experiences because I've read so many different things than other people, it was very hard to be off testosterone and go through the whole process, but I've been surprised by the lack of lows and maybe they're coming for me I don't know. Maybe I'm just still in the high zone of like ask me after a couple of like failed insemination attempts where I'm at You know, we'll see. But yeah. And just like, do what feels best for you. Because like, we've talked about already people are gonna judge you no matter what you're doing. So like, if you know that this is your path to parenthood, then just take it, and define it, for yourself. 

Julia: Liam talked a few times about looking in the mirror at different points in his life and seeing or not seeing the right version of himself. So I asked him to imagine looking in the mirror as a pregnant person. 

Liam:  My belly is super hairy. So I just picture a big pregnant hairy belly. 

Julia: Liam, we are sending you tons of love and good wishes as you try and get pregnant. We hope that you have a big, hairy, belly soon.